Amb Tranx 160 Transponder With Charger, Cradle And Mounting Bracket. $250.00; 10d 9h 14m; Transponder Tranx Charger, 160 With Amb Mounting And Cradle Bracket Amb With 160 And Bracket Tranx Mounting Charger, Cradle Transponder.
Several people have infered how easy it would be to make a comparable transponder and market it for a fraction of the cost that we now pay yet nobody has bothered to do it. People have bitched about the cost ever since AMB took over from the manual hand held clickers or the push button attached to a Commodore 64. That was what, 20+ years ago.
Yet nobody has come out with a better/cheaper design. The bitching started again when the personal versions came out. Only 1 company has bothered to produce a workable replacement, but even it is not at the price point some of you are willing to pay. Why?There ARE plenty of alternatives, but big tracks already own an AMB system and state/national races use them.
So racers have to buy AMB one way or another. Trackmate racing has a system with $25 transponders, I-Lap are $40 or so, same with Giro-z. These systems are. There ARE plenty of alternatives, but big tracks already own an AMB system and state/national races use them.
So racers have to buy AMB one way or another. Trackmate racing has a system with $25 transponders, I-Lap are $40 or so, same with Giro-z. These systems are. For me it was worth the investment, I own 4 amb PT's.
I fully understand that the cost isn't an option for many. All but one of mine were bought used 50-80 bucks a pop. It's tough for new people to justify the cost, mom and dad are not going to pay $100 for a PT so junior can go to the track. Which is why any track that wants to stay open is going to offer some type of house transponder, even if that means an extra 2-3 bucks for entry fee.
Would a much cheaper PT be nice, sure. All of you that own a MRT do realize that somewhere in the world there is a AMB PT with the exact same number right?
Every PT number that MRT has was cloned from a AMB PT.not saying it's a bad thing. I was recently reading an old issue of RCCA from either '03 or '04 (can't remember) and in the 'Inside Scoop' column they had the new AMB RC3 system. It had a listing for the complete setup with decoder, loop, 10 house transponders, charger, and cables.
They also had a listing for the new RC3 personal transponders. The price was either $45 or $55 - I can't remember. Within 5 years that same exact product, with no technical advancements, was double the price. Not really any explanation for that other than the simple rule of supply and demand.try again. Value of your USD has HALVED since then 2003 the AUD was worth US 55c today AUD1 = US 105-110c check for yourself @.
Exactly, the solution is to simply make a transponder kit (something people can easily assemble themselves or buy pre-assembled)bit like saying brain surgery is easy so why do surgeons charge so much. After all u just needs a scapel ($1) and a bottle of betadine ($5). But the skill & knowing where to cut?
($64k.) These days actually costs MORE to market a kit (think QC, instructions etc) plus most todays kiddies don't have sufficient skills & tools to solder properly. And even if they did, they'll need a decent $50-100 solder station, can't quite get away using a old screwdriver heated over a fire. On other side of the fence. Re AMB's R&D spent on signal pickup reliability. Bring in a heap of 'compatible' homemade transponders.
Who do you blame when laps aren't counted? Or worse, every 2nd one counted etc etc. Race director does not have time to be investigating such glitching, we already waste enough time doing loop checks making sure everybody's car is getting counted before major finals. That works with the AMB frequency assignment. MRT did it, others can do it too, and cheaper (and not across the pond.) AMB all run same frequency but different coding per PT.
Clones have cloned the PT coding, which works only when there's 1 per system. Same as cloning the SIM card on your GSM phone.
Now that RC4 is a 'global' system with every race counter (supposedly) all linked online together to share racer's stats, firmware updates etc you can't have certain PT codes doing multiple reporting at once. Too easy to just blacklist them, no brainer to the software boffins i'm sure. Not correct as far as I know, have a buddy that looked into it.
They use a different frequency, IIRC, and are not compatible.myth also ignores need for 1:1 transponders to be self-contained, eg karts don't have a common/simple source of regulated 6V DC we've tried modding the RC4 to make it self-contained. Just add a tiny battery to feed it 25mA, easy right?
But battery & connection gotta be shockproof & won't get disconnected too easy, needs convenient way to charge the battery you've added, needs new cradle to be devised for quick swap etc. Since we've got this thread here, this is what i WISH mylaps would do. 1, sell clubs with RC4 a 'crippled' PT that only works at that club. Club can then use these as raceday loaners or long-term hire with less risk of users disappearing with them before they are fully paid off. Stolen units are blackbanned off global system, solves lack of loaner AMB.
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2, offer a self-contained PT with built-in battery, be perfect if it charges itself off my lipo balance plug 2a, RC4 cradles should hold the wiring. Ain't much of a 'quickchange' if i have to replug into power every change, especially with closed RX boxes. 3, multiple sub-PTs under main PT#.
Eg if i have multiple PTs they are all configured to respond under my main PT# regardless of race, with assumption there is only 1 of me and i'll only be racing at one location with 1 car at any particular time of the day. Bit like saying brain surgery is easy so why do surgeons charge so much. After all u just needs a scapel ($1) and a bottle of betadine ($5).
But the skill & knowing where to cut? ($64k.) These days actually costs MORE to market a kit (think QC, instructions etc) plus most todays kiddies don't have sufficient skills & tools to solder properly.
And even if they did, they'll need a decent $50-100 solder station, can't quite get away using a old screwdriver heated over a fire. On other side of the fence. Re AMB's R&D spent on signal pickup reliability. Bring in a heap of 'compatible' homemade transponders. Who do you blame when laps aren't counted? Or worse, every 2nd one counted etc etc. Race director does not have time to be investigating such glitching, we already waste enough time doing loop checks making sure everybody's car is getting counted before major finals.
AMB all run same frequency but different coding per PT. Clones have cloned the PT coding, which works only when there's 1 per system.
Same as cloning the SIM card on your GSM phone. Now that RC4 is a 'global' system with every race counter (supposedly) all linked online together to share racer's stats, firmware updates etc you can't have certain PT codes doing multiple reporting at once.
Too easy to just blacklist them, no brainer to the software boffins i'm sure. Wow this thread was a pretty hilarious read.
Here is the deal people don't get about the cost of these cheap little pieces of plastic. A.) You only need to buy it once and assuming you take care of it it will last virtually forever. This means that instead of having a subscription model where you have to buy a new transponder every weekend (which would cost you significantly more over time) they have to get all of their money up front. Its the same deal with most things you buy. A great example of this is a bicycle.
How can Cannondale get $2,000 for a bicycle when you can get a Mongoose at Wal-Mart for $200? Because its a quality product that will last forever with proper maintenance. They only get your money once so they had better get it all up front. What makes a set of Oakleys worth $300 and a pair of Timex Iron-Man Sunglasses worth $18.99? Oakley Sunglasses (once apon a time) were all rated as safety glasses as well as being significantly more durable than a cheap $20 pair of sunglasses. B.) This annoying little thing called Research and Development. The tooling costs as well as manufacturing costs that get added to the total cost of of the finished product.
Then there is 3rd party testing fees from CE and the FCC to make the product legal to sell in the United States and Europe (you all forgot that these devices emit a radio frequency didn't you). The cost of maintaining patents is also in there along side advertising and legal fees. C.) We aren't even a fly on the wall in the transponder market. Our re-usable transponders are cheap compared to their 1:1 automotive counterparts and there aren't loaners for those guys. I have definitely noticed that there are two camps here for transponders: Racers that understand that racing is expensive and Bashers that complain about the cost of everything.
Here is the deal if you want to be competitive then you have to pay to play and when thrown into the mix of tires, spare parts and tools a transponder is a drop in the bucket. On the other hand if you are still running the same tires on your stampede from '95 then you probably don't actually race and of course a transponder seems expensive. Don't get me wrong, spending five hundred dollars on a kit seems really gratifying compared to something a little bigger than a quarter that costs a hundred bucks.
As far as the argument to rip off AMB and create a cheaper alternative. Good luck with that. Patent laws are specifically in place to prevent people from doing that. Just because MRT can do it in Europe and get away with shipping them stateside doesn't mean that such a business would fly here in the States. If MRT really posed any sort of threat to AMB believe me they would cease to exist overnight.
AMB could bury them in injunctions and legal fees that could last decades. Wow this thread was a pretty hilarious read. Here is the deal people don't get about the cost of these cheap little pieces of plastic.
A.) You only need to buy it once and assuming you take care of it it will last virtually forever. So do a lot of things, like a decent radio, or a servo. This means that instead of having a subscription model where you have to buy a new transponder every weekend (which would cost you significantly more over time) they have to get all of their money up front. Its the same deal with most things you buy.
A great example of this is a bicycle. How can Cannondale get $2,000 for a bicycle when you can get a Mongoose at Wal-Mart for $200? There is no Wal-Mart transponder. It is an ultra-simple piece of electronic gear that costs around $5 to make. Because its a quality product that will last forever with proper maintenance. They only get your money once so they had better get it all up front. What makes a set of Oakleys worth $300 and a pair of Timex Iron-Man Sunglasses worth $18.99?
Oakley Sunglasses (once apon a time) were all rated as safety glasses as well as being significantly more durable than a cheap $20 pair of sunglasses BS, now you're going to say that cost = quality. No, they are both made in China most likely, and they both protect your eyes. You pay for a NAME. And you pay it because Oakley knows they can sell to you, the guy who likes to buy a brand name because it satisfies ego. Now I'm not saying YOU personally, but brand marketers know their audience, and know exactly what the market will bear.
B.) This annoying little thing called Research and Development The R&D of a transponder is something you can do with an electrical toolbox and some metering equipment in minutes, nobody's doing wind-tunnel or Faraday cage testing of a stupid transponder. The tooling costs as well as manufacturing costs that get added to the total cost of of the finished product its got as much plastic as a lego piece, seriously. Then there is 3rd party testing fees from CE and the FCC to make the product legal to sell in the United States and Europe (you all forgot that these devices emit a radio frequency didn't you) So does a Flysky $20 radio, FCC licensed. The cost of maintaining patents is also in there along side advertising and legal fees. Maintaining a patent?! Have you ever been through the patent process? C.) We aren't even a fly on the wall in the transponder market.
Our re-usable transponders are cheap compared to their 1:1 automotive counterparts and there aren't loaners for those guys. MC guys use disposables that aren't AMB. It would be pretty simple to make a receiver-plug'd transponder originally utilizing the tech built into the disposables, to make them long-term usable.
You can't conclude the suggested cost between another AMB monopoly market like auto racing because it becomes a fallacious line of reasoning. What's outside of AMB's monopoly however CAN be included in the argument/discussion I have definitely noticed that there are two camps here for transponders: Racers that understand that racing is expensive and Bashers that complain about the cost of everything. Here is the deal if you want to be competitive then you have to pay to play and when thrown into the mix of tires, spare parts and tools a transponder is a drop in the bucket. On the other hand if you are still running the same tires on your stampede from '95 then you probably don't actually race and of course a transponder seems expensive. Don't get me wrong, spending five hundred dollars on a kit seems really gratifying compared to something a little bigger than a quarter that costs a hundred bucks. Its not gratifying, it is substantiated cost.
We all hopefully understand markup, and we all understand competition. In a free market, the competition drives prices down and the consumers benefit. Somehow, someway, this balance has been disrupted by AMB's monopoly. Thus, a tiny cheap thing has blown vastly out of proportion and profits are well off the pace of other things in this industry.
I fully expect to pay around $100 for a CNC-machined lightweight chassis made out of 7075 alloy that is hard-coated and significant R&D measures applied to ensure it works. I don't expect to pay this when the part in question is a common piece of electronics (similar to the one in your CC, or possibly your cat or dog for a few bucks) and I don't expect the market to end in a monopoly. As far as the argument to rip off AMB LOL! You mean return the favor? And create a cheaper alternative. Good luck with that.
Patent laws are specifically in place to prevent people from doing that Doubt there is an AMB patent on transponders, since shipping containers, livestock, products like cologne, pets, shopping carts, highway EZ passes, car keys and cards, and yeah, your smartphones and tablets. Just because MRT can do it in Europe and get away with shipping them stateside doesn't mean that such a business would fly here in the States. If MRT really posed any sort of threat to AMB believe me they would cease to exist overnight. AMB could bury them in injunctions and legal fees that could last decades.
Just saying things are supposed to be that way, or saying transponder creation to work w/ their systems violates patent. Well that's just not the case. A patent protects a few things but one thing it doesn't do is protect a monopoly.
Could you mass produce a AMB compatible transponder right now for $5/ea? If you could would you sell them for $5/ea? How about an iPhone? Could you make one of those if you had the $140 pile of parts in front of you? Would you sell the finished product for $140?
Sure the sum of the parts of something may only add up to a few dollars but what about the cost that goes into assembling them. What about the cost of keeping the website updated and cleaning the bathrooms at the facility that assembles them? Suddenly that $5 pile of parts turns into $25. Now lets consider the cost of packaging along side taxes, shipping and export fees. Suddenly that $5 pile of parts is $45 and that just COST. (I'm realize these aren't real numbers but I can't be that far off) So Mr. Armchair Engineer.
Lets see those $5 AMB compatible transponders. When you get them let me know Ill put in an order for 20 of em. I do agree as a race director I would be concerned about the reliability of a transponder made cheaply by a new player in the game or by someone thyself. I take no responsibility at all if a transponder is not counting at our races, even if they are using one of my public ones. This is because in most cases missing counts are due to placement issues of where the transponder is mounted in the model.
If I see a driver has the transponder mounted where I believe it will perform poorly I will suggest a different way, but in the case of body mounting high in a monster trucks it is hard to find a good spot. In every case, a well placed personal transponder mounted in the car will work the best. In a case where there should become an issue of a conflict between an original AMB transponder and one made by any other company, the AMB one wins. In the case of MRT that is not a problem though. There are alternate ID numbers that can be selected in them by the owner.
I have never tried to buy one yet but if they ever wised up and made it so I could get them and sell them at my place for $50 and make a profit, I would do so.